If Jesus Walked Today- Ch. 1:Truth is Beautiful…

          So Jesus walks into a bar, and actually sits down. He orders a blue moon with an extra orange slice and looks up at the television. Nascar is on, and everybody knows that Jesus hates Nascar, so he asks the bartender if he could kindly have the remote. The bartender smiles at his savior and obliges, handing Jesus the remote. With the remote control in hand Jesus becomes Jesus even more, and with the power of the remote control begins to scour the channels that the satellite company has provided. He stops on Discovery Channel, where he sees a heard of elephants defending their calf from a pride of marauding lionesses. Soon Jesus gets bored and he changes the channel. Then Jesus stops on Fox News. Bill O’Reilly’s voice thunders from the TV and so he presses mute. Pitiful, pitiful, pitiful… Jesus whispers under his breath and the bartender becomes intrigued. Jesus changes the channel again and stops on TBN, and a woman with pink hair standing about two feet off her head, is talking about sewing a seed of faith. She said she accepted all major credit cards. The bartender watches as Jesus’ face takes on a very visible frustration. My, my. Things just never change… The Christ whispers again. Then Jesus stops on a music video channel. A Marilyn Manson music video is playing, and Jesus smiles.
           Jesus puts down the remote and lights up a clove. The bartender was shocked! Jesus was smoking and drinking and watching an anti-Jesus artist, at his bar? His pastor would never believe this.
           “Jesus, why are you in a bar drinking beer, smoking cloves and watching Marilyn Manson?” The man now had an openly uncomfortable expression on his face.

          “Well friend, the church down the road kicked me out. They said I was too “emerging”, and that what I was saying was too post modern. So here I am. I came here for some honesty.” Jesus smiled at the tv and points at the dark figure writhing around on a stage. “That is honesty and it is more beautiful than what I just witnessed down the road. At least he is being honest with me!”

          The bartender was still pretty shocked. “Guess I won’t be back there anytime soon!” He laughed to himself while he filled another pint for Christ.

          “Not if you want to see me, you won’t.” Jesus smiled and turned off the TV. “Hey, and don’t forget that extra orange!”

          Truth is beautiful.

(P.S. My article is still on www.WreckedfortheOrdinary.com… Check it out! http://tinyurl.com/4f3ycz is the direct link.)

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~ by Tim Kurek on October 15, 2008.

66 Responses to “If Jesus Walked Today- Ch. 1:Truth is Beautiful…”

  1. It’s sad that the church has gotten that kind of reputation. There are, no doubt, many bad churches but there are also, many good churches. I know several

    Many people think they can excuse themselves and not follow Jesús because they see others who are supposedly Christians and they are not a good example.

    What we need to remember is that Christians are not perfect, only forgiven. Only God is perfect. He is the one we need to look up to, not the sins of others because, after all, we all have our own sins. Look for a good church where the Bible is taught and lived.

    Jesús said: I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.

  2. Investigodora, I wholeheartedly agree… That is merely referencing one particular church in the story… I am doing a series of blogs about Jesus in a modern context. Don’t worry, I would never demonize the true church!

  3. […] The following link is presented as vivid illustration of the fruit currently being produced by seeker-friendly churches ala Willow Creek and the Emerging Church with their man-centered Church Growth versions of the Christian faith. The author begins: So Jesus walks into a bar, and actually sits down. He orders a blue moon with an extra orange slice and looks up at the television… With the remote control in hand Jesus becomes Jesus even more, and with the power of the remote control begins to scour the channels that the satellite company has provided… […]

  4. It’s not like Jesus cares about sin or anything…
    Is this the Jesus of the Bible, or is this the Jesus you made up in your head?
    You scorn the televangelists, and Bill O’Reily but haven’t they done the exact same thing as you: try to conform Jesus to the Jesus of your own thoughts?

    Its way too easy to bash them and then go on making up an image of Jesus that never existed.

  5. How could Jesus Christ enjoy watching a man trudging his way to hell? How could Jesus smile watching a man openly reject Him and encourage others to do the same when Jesus went to the cross and took the full wrath of God upon Himself so that that man and sinners like him could inherit eternal life?

    I know that it is a lot of fun to rag on everyone else who has been purchased by the blood of Christ. I do it too. Christians are sinners and let us down all the time, and we love to point that out. They are also no fun and not cool and don’t understand art and philosophy and whatever. Ok, sure that’s great been there.

    But to say that our Savior would sit back and tap His toes to the songs of a man who, although dressed the traditional trappings of hell and death, has no idea of the agony that awaits him: Would Jesus not weep for this sinner? Would he not be angry at the thought of the many who are led astray by him?

    Cloves, cocktails, sure whatever…it’ll seem so passe in a couple years, but sure, fine, macchiatos, sitar music, floral patterned dress shirts …groovy, whatever, maybe Jesus would be caught looking hip for a few minutes, but to say that he would rejoice in a celebration of sin and death and the very things that separate people from Him eternally because of their “honesty”? Jesus?

    Marilyn Manson makes as much money as Jan Crouch, and Bill ‘O Reilly do by doing what he does. It may be easier for us to swallow, but let’s not fool ourselves. He’s not some poor humble sinner who is crying out redemption any more than those other two. He’s a man who has made his decision to dishonor God here on earth, and does not mind at all who he takes with him as long as he gets paid the big bucks. He may be hipper than the lady with the pink hair, his music may touch a part of us that we wouldn’t let Bill O’ Reilly anywhere near, but he’s no better, he’s just better at what he does—at least within his target demographic.

    God sees the heart. Jesus sees the heart. He sees the heart of the guy on Fox News, and the lady on TBN, and the people who we can’t stand at church, but he also sees through the powerful images, the moving lyrics, the transcendent beat, and all the other charms of the figures with whom we more readily identify.
    We admire artists who make us identify with their work and their “struggle” and tiny deep-hidden aspects of the human condition that we thought nobody else noticed, but God sees all, and He sees past that too.

    Brilliant artists are good at what they do. They are able to express things to us that we are normally unable to express to each other. This makes them good at what they do, but it doesn’t make them more honest.

    Can we be honest? Our flesh likes what it likes and we like to think God likes what we like too. Its hard for us to imagine a world without “cool”, a world where our poetry is empty, and dragging on a clove in a dimly golden cafe to the strains the most ravishing music to yet come upon us is actually superficial, spiritual maybe, but not deep. We don’t need to imagine it, we probably shouldn’t, but we can know it. Things that attract us, that touch us powerfully, that move us, are not always the truth. They seem honest, and real, but the Truth is what is real. We have to know that though we love our music and our friends and our tastes and our smells, that there is in truth something realer than what we like, something truer than the confused honesty of shared human falleness.

    I like to sneer at those who are carried away by Jan Crouch while I get carried away by Bob Dylan. But there is a world beyond “cool” and Christ sees the heart.

  6. Jesus happened to hang around with many prostitutes, tax collectors, drunks, lepers, heathens, etc., but he certainly never became LIKE any of those people in an effort to lead them to repentance and salvation. Wouldn’t it have been a little confusing to the sinner for Jesus to have started DOING the same things they were doing?

  7. yikes

  8. would jesus really do those things JUST to be contentious? it seems that when he was offending people, it was to expose some greater hypocrisy in their lives, in order to teach whomever he was teaching the truth about God. what do you see him teaching here?

  9. Which Jesus are you following?

  10. Your analogy is pure blasphemy. Jesus is holy and judges sin. If he didn’t judge sin, then he would not be just. Our body is the temple and if we defile the temple, God can and will destroy us. Jesus has an incorruptible nature,while men are born with corruptible natures. How can you reduce Jesus to a drunk in a bar defiling himself, while not having any indignation with sin? Shame on you. God does not always have an open ear to the unrepentant sinner. For your sake, I hope that you delete this article.

  11. The Jesus in this article is nothing like the Jesus as seen in the scripture. In making Christ a post modern “emergent person”, smoking, drinking and enjoying a blasphemous musician like Manson is twisted and sick itself, you have made Jesus into your own image and I pray God would open your eyes to the truth in what you and the rest of the deceived emergent church are doing.

  12. Blasphemy! Pure and unadulterated blasphemy. Surely there are churches that are not emulating Jesus. However, if this is the Jesus of the Bible, which it most certainly is not, then I would have nothing to do with it. Imagine, Jesus smoking, watching an anti-Christ singer and enjoying, and being in a bar. Blasphemy!!!!

  13. He said there’d be people like this in the end.

  14. Jesus will return for His remnant. In the mean time God’s vengeance will be poured out on the unrighteous. Turn from putting yourself above God and repent. May God’s mercy endure forever.

  15. Jesus might walk into a bar but it would not be to drink a beer and smoke a cigarette. It would be to call out people from the bar to come and follow Him. Jesus did not wallow with the prostitutes in their brothels. He didn’t party with Herod when Herod sought a miracle. He refused to speak to Him. He told the Prostitute to go and sin no more. He called out Levy from His booth. He ate with Zaccheus and Zaccheus repented. Jesus doesn’t change. Nor does He evolve. He is the Same. He Was and Is and Is to Come. The Church has changed. It has locked Jesus out and He is outside knocking wanting in. But the Church is to relevant to answer the door. The church in America is Rich in goods and needs not God. It is blind and cannot see its’ Own nakedness. The Church today is so relevant that the World is not convicted of Sin nor sees any need to Repent and Embrace the Cross when it attends in our services. America is going to hell and Willow Creek, Saddleback, Joel Osteen, and all the others are leading them there. Repent and cover your nakedness. Buy salve for your eyes so that you can see. Jesus does not Change. He is coming back and all who do not have oil in their lamps will be locked out when they try to go and buy it in the night.

  16. Glad to see your back to blogging! Will you be updating Uriah Ministries as well. Also if you would like to guest post over at Simply Ecclesia just let me know… though I actually think you would help my site more than yours 🙂

    http://simplyecclesia.com

  17. Not sure which Jesus you are referring to here, but he sounds like yet another false Christ to me. There is some honesty for you.

  18. I absolutely love the judgmental, high-brow “Christians” who’ve commented thus far. While I don’t agree that this is an accurate picture of Christ, you all make me sick. You leap to make your attacks. Shouldn’t you be doing something of value with your lives instead of sitting on the Internet, bickering like a bunch of asinine idiots? Most likely not, in your opinion. I pray to God that your children and your children’s children will strike out from the nest at an early age and find the true God, NOT the false God and Messiah that you all worship with split tongues and prideful hearts. Instead of finding a positive dialogue in this piece, you leap to discredit it and attack the author. You snakes! You wolves who dare to masquerade as the flock of Almighty Yahweh. I pray that on the day of judgment, Father Yahweh will overlook your foolishness and your inability to contribute anything of value to society and to the men and women you are united with in the common bond of humanity…

    Now that all of that’s been said: I laugh at you all. Honestly. You need lives. You find some inner need to criticize and nitpick about things on the INTERNET. Wow. What a pathetic attempt at making a difference. “Who cares about feeding the homeless? Someone posted a blog that I disagree with and I must leap at them with unbound viciousness, like a Bibleman clone.” I used my above paragraph to show you how ridiculous you are. I posted an EXACT copy of what you are saying to this blogger, tailored to fit you all, of course. You probably still believe in tithing yet consume swine and shellfish. Do you ladies enter the church or gathering place when you are affected with menstruation? If so, you’re going to hell because you are unclean and showing disrespect for God. You cannot pick and choose what to believe and disbelieve like you’re putting together an outfit, you self-centered, ignorant, bigot morons. With that being said, I’m going to go enjoy a beer and a kretek cigarette while I pray and read my Bible.

    But let me put forth one more thing… Marilyn Manson may be an evil man to some but, biblically, you, me, and him are in the same boat. We’re all in the same boat: SIN.

    Amen.

  19. Josh, What’s this?:
    “You need lives. You find some inner need to criticize and nitpick about things on the INTERNET. Wow. What a pathetic attempt at making a difference.”

    Golly, I kinda thought people had blogs so that people could read their posts, and included comment sections so that people could discuss them.

    Is posting on a blog a good use of time but commenting on one not, or are they both taking away from time that should be spent caring for the poor? Or is it that people who agree with you have wisdom to impart but people who do not need to get a life?
    Can you not at least sympathize with the desire that God’s name not be blasphemed and that sound doctrine (true things about God based on scripture)be upheld?

    The woman who poured out her tears and her costly perfume on Jesus was not scolded by Jesus for expending a resource that could have been used to feed the hungry and treat the sick. In the same way, I don’t think Christians should be ashamed when they use their resources (including time) giving Christ the honor and the glory that He so richly deserves.

    In re, your final comment: Biblically, those who are in Christ are new creations, who have passed from death into life, not by our own works but by the work of Christ on the Cross. I’d say that’s rather a different “boat”.

  20. How odd that the new testament of our lord Jesus Christ had no shocking ,exstreme,displays of Jesus going to the sinners level of action os sin.He was never alone humanly except in the Garden and the Cross and tomb.Read revelation he does not run away from His Church He warns and tells the church not to leave Him. as the post moderns are doing .And then trying to paint Christ into their choices.

  21. Greetings Sylvia,
    Your first thought was entirely correct. Unfortunately, this post isn’t a discussion or a correct representation of dialogue. You know, where two or more parties engage in a friendly exchange of opposing or differing viewpoints? This post’s comments have, for the overwhelming percentage, been attacks on the entry and the writer. That’s idiocy in action.

    As to your second paragraph, I believe both writing and commenting are valid uses of time, when there is knowledge to be gained. Sadly, all of the comments were from what seem to be rabid fundamentalists and contained nothing but chest-beating, brow-beating hot air. I sense only judgment and condemnation on the part of the commenters whom I was addressing. To be blunt, your inquiries about my opinions regarding whether or not blogging or commenting were good uses of time seemed sarcastic in nature and were in no way amusing.

    I totally agree with you about Mary’s sacrifice of the alabaster flask of perfume on Christ’s feet. She was not scolded. She was honored by many as an example of honesty and giving in worship. However, none of what I observed above is what I feel as pure and holy worship. The author, whom I have spoken with on the phone this very evening, felt the EXACT same way as I do.

    As for my final comment and yours as well, I offer one question and one question only.

    Do you still falter and transgress against Christ?

    If so, you are still in the SAME boat as Marilyn Manson. Sin is sin and it corrupts completely. There are no “little” sins nor are there “large” sins. A lie is a lie. Forget about ‘white lies’ and other semantic garbage. Murder is murder, whether it’s called ‘abortion’ or not. You, me, Marilyn Manson, and Osama Bin Laden are all sinners, yet you and I have the hope of salvation through the cross of Christ. BUT THAT HOPE DOESN’T MAKE US ANY BETTER THAN THEM! That’s what the ignorant people I stand against can’t seem to get through their stubborn skulls.

    When you use the Scriptures to alienate and segregate, you are no better than the men and women who used the Bible to oppress women, promote slavery, and justify anti-Semitism. Those are NOT biblical principles, yet there are tons of verses that can be wrenched painfully out of context to support those blasphemous doctrines. Instead of all of us coming onto sites such as this, ranting and raving about what the Bible says, not what we think it says but WHAT IT SAYS, we need to learn to dialogue, much like Paul at the Areopagus, where we might find a common ground of belief and minister to each other from there.

    And now I am done.

  22. And after that very thorough answer and intelligent line of thought, you have earned a break! Thank you Josh, as always, for being someone that thinks reasonably instead of irrationally! We forget that no matter what we believe in, its all only opinions no matter how much faith we have in it.

    And thank you all for checking out this blog! The fundy sites that have added me are well put together and run by God-fearing people, even if they disagree with any of my paradigms about life and faith!

  23. 1 Peter 1:13-16 – “Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”

    James 4:4-8 – “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.”

    2 Corinthians 6:14-18 – “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”

    I am so grateful that in spite of my demographic, in spite of the fact that I was not raised in the church, and in spite of the fact that I am a new Christian, God has protected me from the pitfall of worldly ‘relevance.’ Josh, you have illustrated precisely the kind of false Christ I am to avoid. Your ‘Jesus in a bar’ is not the holy God who walked the earth as man, was crucified, died, and was resurrected, but rather an illustration of what the false Christs, as warned about in the gospels and epistles, looks like. As a new Christian, the kind of darkness (false-doctrine?) in this blog is frightening, but somehow educational. Once was enough. I needn’t ever come back.

    Matthew 13: 30 – “Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat unto my barn.”

    Brother, be careful! The tares are a plant almost entirely indistinguishable from the wheat. Wheat is separate from the tares: Sanctified, made holy; set apart for God!

  24. m e brooks said this on October 16, 2008 at 2:06 am:

    “The Church has changed.”

    I would elaborate on this to say: the Church has actually shrunk. The church does not and cannot retain apostates.

  25. This is sad and pathetic. I would not even know where to start with your false Jesus in this little story of yours. But I do know that if you really believe what you have written I pray for your soul.

  26. Thanks for you response Josh.
    Personally, I am not seeing the same things in the comments here that you are. Ok, a couple of the shorter ones might seem a little mean and pointless, but by and large its seems to me like they are just in hearty disagreement with the content of the post.
    You say they have mostly been attacks on the entry and the writer. Ok, but those two things aren’t quite equal are they? Attacking the entry, which occurred more frequently, seems to me to be rather more forgivable, if not downright acceptable.
    Do we need to use “fundamentalists” as a word to describe everything dumb and bad in Christendom? A lot of them are great people, and do you really know that the people who wrote the most “chest beating” “brow beating” responses are Fundamentalists and not just trolls? Maybe they’re Pentecostals, who knows!?!?

    The post in question was written in an emotionally powerful way, and although it is expressed in a humorous chummy manner, it takes some sharp digs at certain groups of people. Shouldn’t we expect people to respond with passion and emotion? It was a provocative piece, by design, it did what it did.

    Now once we get into the “boat” metaphor, Josh, you kinda seem to slip into the realm of making attacks and suggestions that are false, and every bit as personal, mean-spirited, chest-beating and brow-beating as anything written here by an alleged “fundie”.
    I will concede: If the boat of which you speak represents committing sin and and the inability to save ourselves, then yes you, me and Marilyn are on the same boat.
    That being said, I didn’t wrench anything out of its context, not did I say I was better than anyone. (I guess I’ll leave my ignorance and the stubbornness of my skull alone.) The Bible does make it clear, in context, that we are new creations in Christ, that by His grace His righteousness is counted to us because he took our sin upon Himself. I agree that there are not better or worse sins, but that isn’t the point. We are new creations entirely because of Christ, regardless of the greatness of our sins. However, those who are not in Christ are not new creations, even if their sins are “small”.

    If we want to look at Paul at the Areopagus, you are going to want to look at his other missionary journeys as well. After his rather exceptional experience of NOT being stoned in Athens, Paul went on to change tactics, seemingly, according to [1 Corinthians 2:1-5]. I don’t think common-ground of belief always should or can be found with those not in Christ. The common ground we all have is that boat we were talking about. Our sin is the reason we need Jesus Christ, and it is common to all of us, as it the God who created us against whom we have sinned.
    Thank you for taking the time to read this.

  27. You know I have to wonder… Why is it that you can’t comprehend what I am saying people? You brood of Vipers are entertaining to listen to for sure. I suggest you read the blog above this one where I explain this one, so you can understand why I used the imagry I did.

    Also Aaron, welcome to the faith! I encourage you to read the sections of the Bible that deal with Humility instead of wasting your time arguing something that has already been explained.

    The simple fact of the matter is that Jesus smiled about Manson because of Rev. 3:15. The cold are honoring and obeying God without even realizing it!!!

    I love checking this and having multiple comments from people, all of which are “praying for my soul!”… I pray for my soul every day and I defintiely am trying to “work out my own salvation with fear and trembling”. I encourage you all to do the same!

    And to those who are criticizing Josh… I wouldn’t do that if I were you. He’s a spiritual Bruce Banner and you might not like him when he’s angry lol lol! jk

  28. Mr Kurek,
    I’m glad that you would never demonize the true church. That is what leads me to wonder, though. Why didn’t the Jesus character in this story go to the true church to be ministered to, rather than the pub?
    You have said that he was not endorsing Marilyn Manson, however, he did choose dwell on that T.V. channel and to smile at what he saw. The God who cannot look upon iniquity (Hab 1:13) was seemingly rejoicing in iniquity (Cor 13:6) because of its honesty.
    If there is a true church, then why didn’t Jesus go to those people after a long day of enduring hypocrites. I think what bugs me here, is that it seems like he goes into a pub to satisfy his flesh with a nice tipple and some tube, when he has a bride waiting for him. It gives the appearance that he is (like so many of us sinners) sitting at the bar badmouthing his bride to the bartender.
    But ok, you say that that was not his true bride, that still leaves the question of why he wasn’t letting her minister to Him, but was more or less leading the bartender to believe that she was what he was escaping from.

    I was just noticing the way you said the honesty was beautiful, and then at the end that truth was beautiful. Did you grab what I was saying before about honesty as we know it being really different from truth. Something that you might really look at in the Bible are times when you interpret God as delighting in people’s honesty, if that is, firstly the best interpretation of what He is in fact appreciating(or the best word for it), and secondly, if it is wholly the same kind of honesty we are used to thinking about. Don’t get me wrong, nothing wrong with honesty, I just think that there’s another really exciting dimension to it that you’re gonna want to catch.
    Thanks for considering it.

  29. The blog was never meant to be taken as some great theological allegory haha…

    The point is, the true church is people.

    Also, Jesus in NO way glorified Manson!!! He spoke about how honesty is beautiful. And whether or not Manson was honoring God, he was obeying his commandment to be hot or cold, not lukewarm.

  30. Sylvia: “Why didn’t the Jesus character in this story go to the true church to be ministered to, rather than the pub?”

    I don’t recall Jesus telling us to go to the true church. He told us to “Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you” (Matt. 28:19-20).

    Us followers of Jesus are to go to those who are not. They are not commanded to come to us. We go to them. We share our life with them like Jesus shared his life with His disciples. This may even mean having a beer with them from time to time. I prefer Ale 😉

  31. whoa. well, tim, you started a controversy… was it everything you thought it would be?

  32. No, its not a controversy, or even an argument/debate. Its a bunch of people who refuse to accept that what they believe is interpretation. I Timothy says to put away vain discussions. It says that the aim of our charge is love. I wrote a blog, made a point, and the people that disagree with me are letting me know. I don’t really even care, but I am happy for the exposure so that future blogs will get more coverage.

    I never wrote this thinking this would happen haha… Honestly!

  33. and i take issue with saying marilyn manson’s attitude toward God is actually “pleasinng” to him. it seems that the cold/hot analogy is actually a reference to the potability of the local water supply. while the interpretation isn’t “inspired” necessarily, many scholars do believe this to be the meaning of the verse, instead of the modern “Jesus wants you to love him or hate him” interpretation. It seems to fit the context better, anyway. check out this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laodicean_Church

  34. Jeff there are two fundamentals here I feel you are overlooking.

    1. By being such an intelligent guy, and being so strong willed, hes using the gifts God has given to him by God. Whether these gifts are being used for God is irrelevant. They are being used, which automatically gives God credit.

    2. Manson is about as dangerous sin wise as the tv show friends… probably less so. You see, he is openly sinful. The show friends desensitizes you to concepts like sex before marriage, profanity, and immoral relationships. But we think its funny so we watch anyways. Jeff do you watch Family Guy or the Simpsons? Both of those shows blaspheme God just as badly as Manson ever has or could…

    Honestly Jeff, I truly respect you and your viewpoint! I wish you understood where I was coming from so you knew I am not trying to make Jesus less of God.

  35. I look forward to the day when people who profess Christ learn intelligent discourse. I’ve checked on several of the sites from some of the commenters and it’s disturbing how they list Scriptures and then tell us what the context is, the real “meaning” behind obscure passages, and the like. What a dangerous practice that is! To say that you believe the Scriptures say something and to definitively state that its literal meaning is something are two different creatures. One is allowing for the possibility of error on your part. The other is to stand as the mouthpiece of God. I don’t believe there is a man on this planet who is able to stand as the mouthpiece of God unless he is directly quoting the Word, without inference and estimation as to its “meaning.”

    Tim, don’t let them get you down. A serpent’s nature is to strike without thinking. The venom may sting, but it is not fatal. Smile at the poor, delusional snake and kick it to the side while you continue your journey.

  36. David,
    The Jesus in the story was not making disciples, he was being ministered to by the bartender for his own gratification. You’re turning the story into something that it isn’t in order to make it seem to line up with scripture.

  37. About to hit 1,500… Im great!

    Sylvia, you know I am so happy that you are here to tell me what I was thinking WHEN I WROTE THAT. So you are omniscient? SUHWEET!

  38. Tim, are you KIDDING ME!?!??!?!
    I wasn’t telling you what you were thinking, I was going from what you actually wrote. You write to communicate, si? So I took your words for what they were. Your words, what you chose to write and communicate, not you, not your inner workings! I have no idea about those things, none, but you wrote what you wrote. That is ALL I was commenting on. sheesh!!!!

  39. Thanks for the warm welcome Tim; though I might add: I agree, the parts of the Bible that teach me humility are vital. Humility is something I definitely must continually be praying for and acting on. However, rebuking one with the scriptures is a) not arguing, b) commanded of us, and c) loving, when done properly. When handled with humility.

    2 Timothy 4:2 – “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.”

    Sir, I cannot stand on my own in this conversation. That is why I try to rely on the Scriptures.
    The portrayal of my God, of my Jesus Christ, in the article in question, simply doesn’t line up with the Son of God in the context of the New Testament. The “Jesus” of the article is a mockery of the Jesus I know personally. He is Holy. He is at God’s right hand. He is GOD. He’s not my ‘buddy’, and no, I don’t have a beer with Him on Saturday afternoon. Actually, I avoid pubs all together because I am weak – and I both love and fear God.

    You want to argue interpretation, let me get out of seminary first. But for now, I will stick with what 16 months as a Christian has taught me: plenary interpretation is best. When the first sense makes sense, seek no other sense. I read the Bible literally, brother.

    To be called a viper…! I’ve been called worse. Especially by those so called ‘friends’ and ‘family’ that have been divided away from me because of the holiness of God. I hate what you have done, author, but I will pray for longsuffering.

    So much for not coming back here… See!: Weak.

  40. Your the one who said, “Why didn’t the Jesus character in this story go to the true church to be ministered to, rather than the pub?”

    The story is what it is. Whether it is Tim’s story or real life, please let me know where it says in the Bible that people are supposed to go to the true church to be ministered to. I won’t hold my breath. I don’t say this to make you upset but there are a lot of ideas that Christians use that have no scriptural basis.

    What is the true church according to scripture?

  41. also… there were some pretty ‘cold’ Pharisees of whom Jesus did not smile at… You’ve got to be careful with your proof-texting, brother.

  42. I agree with everyone that actually saying Jesus would be in a bar drinking a beer and smoking a clove seems out there, but no one can tell me he wouldn’t do that.

    As for the Manson reference, I have to laugh. Marilyn Manson is openly evil as opposed to passively evil. It is easier to tell your children not to listen to him because… Than it is for you to tell them not to watch Family Guy or Friends, or Seinfeld for that manner. Do those shows not present horrible messages and ideologies too?

    You guys seem to pick and choose what to nitpick at, but when push comes to shove all you can do is look at things negatively as opposed to things as they are. I did not contradict scripture in any way, shape or form in the above story, yet you guys all jump on the judgement bandwagon so quickly. I encourage you, read the story again. Ask yourself if there were times in the Bible where Jesus was even implied in partaking of wine. Also think in terms of Israel, where incense was used as well as pipes, tobacco, etc, on a daily basis.

    Did you know that most of the disciples historically, most likely had an ear or two pierced? Look it up.

    Stop blindly attacking and think for a minute. I wrote this piece strategically, and you guys are all over it. All of your concerns have been answered by David, Josh or myself, and will probably soon be answered by a regular to this blog named Tei, but you guys still won’t hear anything but your judgments.

    So I am going to go write chapter 3 of my Jesus saga, and hopefully you guys will find that just as enlightening as you found this one to be. I encourage you guys to read and comment on the second chapter… If you haven’t Kobe Bryant becomes the first disciple. haha… Thanks for the numbers guys!

    Your emerging friend,
    Tim

  43. […] If Jesus Walked Today- Ch. 1:Truth is Beautiful…           So Jesus walks into a bar, and actually sits down. He orders a blue moon with an extra orange slice […] […]

  44. Alright, my two centsFirst, it seems some on here are not behaving very Christ-like. Now, I think every Christian would agree that the real Jesus is to be found in … the Scriptures! So, Jesus said “I am meek and lowly at heart.” Jesus turned water into wine and drank wine with His disciples at the Last Supper. Jesus was a big, strong man who worked as a Carpenter most of His life. Jesus came to save sinners. Jesus dined with sinners. Jesus condemned Pharisees. Jesus told His followers “if any man would come after me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.” Jesus was radical, different, outspoken, the Lion of Judah, but also the Lamb of God. He is not among us today, but after He ascended in the first century AD He stayed in heaven, and will come back some day “on the clouds of heaven.” I am not attacking or supporting anyone, I’m just telling it like it is. God bless.

  45. Dear readers, please forgive me for the following illustration which may come across as sarcastic. I am trying to show you what is ’emerging.’

    Tim’s little buddy, Jesus:

    “Well friend, the church down the road kicked me out. They said I was too “emerging”, and that what I was saying was too post modern. So here I am. I came here for some honesty…”

    (There you have Tim’s little buddy Jesus, just a’ pokin’ around, lookin’ for some honesty. Looking for some real, ‘relevent’ folk not unlike himself… That snivelling little weakling is not God. (When Tim’s Jesus says “…they said I was too emerging” he is trying to twist God into some kind of position that supports the emerging-church…yeah…What!?) So he heads on down to the local pub and, yes, we know Jesus drank wine and dined with sinners, but His purpose was what?: to bring glory and honour to the Father. NOT to feel satisfied that there were some real emerging people who had something better to offer Him. FILTHY RAGS, people. Nothing more.)

    Jesus Christ, the Son of God:
    “He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify thy name…” (John 12:25-18)

    Brother, Jesus wasn’t looking for ‘real’ or ‘honest’ people. He was looking for servants who would give up their lives for Him. He was looking for people who were broken over their sin, who would willingly give up their lives to SERVE Him; to repent of and reject the things that this world loves. Why? To glorify His Father’s name. How? By believing in who Jesus is, and by putting their trust in Him, and by repenting. By picking up their cross, which would ultimately seperate them from the world, and following God, even unto persecution and bloodshed.

    In your emerging philosophy, what happens to sanctification? What happens to adoption? What happens to propitiation? What happens to holiness? What happens to your friendship with the world? What happens to being in the world, but not of the world? I cannot think of a bigger betrayal other than the so-called emerging church, the seeker-friendly mega-church, and the prosperity-gospel people. What compromise! But at the same time, I am not surprised. People, don’t be surprised by this vain foolishness! The Bible tells us over and over and over that there will be false Christs, false teachers, imitation-christianity, wolves, right up to the end. The wheat and the tares! The falling away! Those saying “Lord, Lord!” Tim my friend, you should know better.

    “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.” (2Peter 3:17,18)

  46. David,
    Very cool that you are asking me for scripture, you have every right and that’s awesome. I think I need to clarify what I was actually saying, though. I wasn’t saying that PEOPLE are supposed to go to church to be ministered to. (not that they aren’t, I just wasn’t meaning to go there.) What I was saying that the true Church should minister to Jesus, and that Christ could rejoice in the praise and adoration of His blood- bought bride. I was making the point that if Christ had a bride(the church) than it doesn’t follow that he would, as the story suggested, take His delight and comfort from the admittedly-better-off-than-the-Laodician-church world. (Also I wasn’t arguing that He would never ENTER a bar, smoke a clove, etc) Does that make it a little clearer what I meant?
    You can ask me for more specific scripture now that I have explained what my case actually was, I just needed to clarify it first.

    Now the specific question you already asked: “What is the true church according to scripture?”
    Arr..tough one…but very worthwhile…
    Now, the use of the term “true church” came up earlier and was used for contrast with the more general use of the term “church” which may be apostate. So, I was using it, as Tim did above to mean THE church (Christ’s church) as opposed to A church(a building or group in which religious teachings happen)

    Ok, The word in Greek is ekklesia meaning those “called out”, or “called forth”. It explained to be be the body of Christ, who is the head. (Eph 1:22,5:23, Col 1:8,). This is likened to a husband’s headship over a wife, connecting it also to the bridal illustrations found in scripture (Rev21:9) It is also spoken of in terms of being a flock of sheep who are shepherded both by the Good Shepherd and by those called to feed the sheep here on earth (Acts 20:28). The church are those called out who by the grace of Jesus by faith in Him have been saved from their sin and washed clean by His blood. John 17:9-10 makes it clear that Christ’s people are not the world in general, but those who have become His(by being born again of the Spirit). I John 3:1 demonstrates that we are able to become children of God who the world, not knowing Jesus, cannot know. The church is, of course, not one building or group, but those who have been born of the Spirit that they may hear the Shepherd’s voice and cry “Abba, Father!” as Jesus did.
    Ephesians 5:25 makes it clear that Christ loves the church. I think we need to understand how much he really does love His church. He loves unrepentant sinners, very much. He died for all of us while we were yet sinners, but we forget sometimes that His bride is not “the old ball and chain”. He paid dearly for His bride and loves her. “Churches” like the church of Laodicea are sickening to Him, but the body of Christ, though it be made up of wicked sinners is loved and cherished by Him.
    I hope I answered that question ok, and I hope I explained little better on that first thing, even though we may still disagree. Thanks for demanding scripture, when someone does that, everybody learns—-ok, maybe just me. Blessings.

  47. https://theevolutionofgod.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/jesus-loves-marilyn-manson/

  48. I am not attacking my brother, Tim. I am rebuking your little puppet show. You could very well be a neat and tidy guy. But when I see a brother stray (stray: at best; teach false doctrine: at worst)from the Word of God, I someties feel compelled to use the Word of God to rebuke him. You can cry “attack! attack! judgement! judgement!” all you want, but when can you really deny what I’ve written? Laugh all you want, Tim. I hope you do have a ‘healthy’ fear of the Lord.

    By “The accuser of the brethren shall be cursed” I assume you are referring to (because I cannot find anything else remotely close to this in the Bible):

    Rev 12:10 “And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night”

    You must mean that I am “the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan” (v. 7)… because that is who this verse is referring to (you need the whole context).
    Wow! That’s pretty mean spirited.

  49. […] https://theevolutionofgod.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/if-jesus-walked-today-ch-1truth-is-beautiful/ […]

  50. Just curious…

    Does the spirit of God direct you to be an ass or is that just your flesh coming through to the surface? Just curious…

    You need to understand something Aaron. Nothing I said in my blog remotely contradicted the word. You can try to give me a point by point outline of the story and compare it to things, but the problem is, it was a Rev. 3:15 based blog. And thanks for referring to it as a puppet show… The thing of it is, the only puppets I see are those who randomely, ignorantly rebuke something they apparently don’t even understand.

    Maybe one day, after a few years of sanctification, God will soften your heart towards others even if they believe differently from you. And maybe, just maybe, you will learn how to use strong words in context and with actual merrit.

    I encourage you to keep reading your Bible, and keep asking God to reveal Himself to you. And I am very happy you are a member of the faith now! Praise God!

  51. I kind of agree with Paul in the last comment. Jesus in His first earthly ministry was considered a radical by the pharisees and other religious leaders of the day. He did dine with sinners- yet told them to sin no more. I found the story interesting, but I really don’t agree with it. People like Marilyn Manson are flaunting their evil nature, in shock value and in our face. I really don’t see anywhere in the Bible where Jesus would find that kind of “honest” display of his Hatred for the Lord and all things Holy in amy way pleasing. I can understand the author’s view though in many people being lukewarm. That is a very prevailant problem in the church today. The way I see it- and I’m just a simple person, trying to learn the Word every day in which the Holy Spirit leads me, but I see that in our post modern whatever kind of society, that people have come to believe that truth is realative- in “what ever works for you is fine, but mine is different” kind of attitudes. They have come to treat Jesus Christ the same way. If His Name is even mentioned at all anymore, people have come to see the Jesus of the Beatitudes- a Jesus of love- only love for everyone and totally non judgemental. He did judge, and He will come and judge all. There is also the other extreme, where people preach nothing but judgement and forget about the love of Christ. Many people also teach so much that if you only come to Jesus- all your problems will be taken care of. You can live your best life now… While actually He warned that if we are to follow Him, we will suffer as He suffered, as is proved in many countries around the world today. He said we would be scoffed at, brought into councils and before judges, jailed and persecuted- if we are His followers. Look- He loves all of us- even folks like Marilyn Manson, but the difference is, that those who admit their sins, accept Jesus as their Lord and savior who went to the cross for us, know ALL of Jesus. I am a sinner. SO is Marilyn Manson, and no I am not any better or worse than him. The only differences are that I know Jesus and trust Him as my Savior, and I believe in a literal hell. Manson does not and he will certainly be separated from Jesus for eternity if he does not come to a new life in Christ though the Holy Spirit. I know this is way too long, and I apologise to the author, but after reading all the comments, I have a lot on my mind here.

  52. It’s not too long Carolyn! Thanks for your input!!!

    I wonder though… Did I say God wasn’t a judge in this article, that he doesn’t hate sin, that he condoned Marilyn Manson’s actions? NO on all counts.

    People have ASSUMED way too much from a 350 word story that was only trying to make the Rev. 3:15 point. This is not some epic theological allegory. This is a simple, mini blog. Mean to fill space! But its opened my eyes to some things!

    Thanks for commenting Carolyn. I agreed with about 99.99% of what you said!

  53. […] https://theevolutionofgod.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/if-jesus-walked-today-ch-1truth-is-beautiful/ to be specific will turn your head! […]

  54. No, I just don’t give a flip about your opinion. You’ve misinterpreted scripture and misinterpreted what I’ve written, so why should I bother to respond?

    You have a great night! Thanks for helping this blog reach number 81 for the day out of over 6 million! You helped my message reach the masses.

  55. Yeah, yeah, Tim, we get it. You want to come across as not being bothered by all of this, so you thank us for bringing so much attention to the blog. But we all know that deep down it is driving you bananas that every Christian doesn’t go along with your nonsense of a story.

  56. […] Evolution Jesus Style I wanted to encourage everyone to check a new blog put up by Tim Kurek called The Evolution of God.  He wrote a very good post that sparked some controversy called If Jesus Walked Today- Ch. 1:Truth is Beautiful… […]

  57. LOL!

  58. I don’t want to get into your story, Tim, I understand what you are trying to say by it. My hunch, however is that Christ would cry over all he sees on T.V., and I think you might agree with that. So I’m not at all offended by your story, more by your attitude in your comments to others. You are approaching a fine line as well, my friend, that of judgment. You may feel judged by others (and yes, you are), but your return comments do not speak love at all. If “the aim of our charge is love,” (your quote from I Timothy) I’d like to see it in action. Step back and take a breath, please.

  59. Matt, I think you have made the best comment on here I have read since I started this blog! Thank you for your level attitude and loving encouragement. It’s hard to be attacked by a million people and maitain a level head, but you are right, I am teetering on that line and for your instruction I thank you! Please keep reading and commenting, I feel I have a lot to learn from you!

    tim

  60. Hi, Tim Kurek. At first, I was a bit stunned by your story — I was missing the irony. But I read it again and I think I understand what you’re trying to say. Yes, many of us don’t know Jesus Christ of Nazareth — because many of us are too busy listening to others describe our LORD and SAVIOR instead of seeking HIM in the Holy Scriptures and in prayer. If we want to know what’s OK for Christians and what’s unholy, that’s in the Holy Bible, too.

  61. Sylvia,

    That was a good and very thorough answer to what the church is according to scripture.

    I invite you to come over to http://simplyecclesia.com some time and check it out. We focus on apologetics and devos, so if you like that kind of stuff come see us.

    David

  62. Tim Kurek is my brother!

  63. Thanks David,
    I’ll definitely be by sometime. Oh, and I see you have a good handle on that Greek part. 😉

  64. https://theevolutionofgod.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/to-everyone-that-has-commented/

  65. […] Kurek called The Evolution of God.  He wrote a very good post that sparked some controversy called If Jesus Walked Today- Ch. 1:Truth is Beautiful… Posts by David | Site Search Tags: Evolution Jesus Style, Tim Kurek, Evolution, The Evolution of […]

  66. […] Evolution Jesus Style Posted by David Knapp On October – 17 – 2008 I wanted to encourage everyone to check a new blog put up by Tim Kurek called The Evolution of God.  He wrote a very good post that sparked some controversy called If Jesus Walked Today- Ch. 1:Truth is Beautiful… […]

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